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What kind of release process should we have?" <= websites infrastructure 2008-08-25T16:22:01 ricky, any progress on that? 2008-08-25T16:22:02 Nothing yet, sorry :-( 2008-08-25T16:22:06 it's all good 2008-08-25T16:22:21 common look and feel - docs.fpo 2008-08-25T16:22:25 tw2113, any progress to report? 2008-08-25T16:22:36 * ricky hibernates 2008-08-25T16:22:40 lol thanks ricky 2008-08-25T16:23:07 tw2113, if you come back let us know 2008-08-25T16:23:09 sorry I'm late 2008-08-25T16:23:09 nothign since last time 2008-08-25T16:23:24 last i knew, i was going to push what i had live 2008-08-25T16:23:30 tw2113, anything holding you up? 2008-08-25T16:23:31 once i got in the cvs group 2008-08-25T16:23:34 tw2113, that can be helped with? 2008-08-25T16:23:40 are you still waiting on that tw2113 ? 2008-08-25T16:23:47 lemme check quick 2008-08-25T16:23:54 okie 2008-08-25T16:24:13 yeah, still pending 2008-08-25T16:24:20 which is understandable with the infrastructure stuff lately 2008-08-25T16:24:26 fp.o/contact is still pending as well. 2008-08-25T16:24:56 i'll look into getting this stuff pushed soon 2008-08-25T16:24:56 ylynfatt, are you held up by waiting on account permissions right now? 2008-08-25T16:25:53 mizmo: nope. Sorry I meant, it's still haven't finished it yet 2008-08-25T16:25:58 ylynfatt, oh okay cool 2008-08-25T16:26:02 needed to check on something 2008-08-25T16:26:08 It seems there is a Contact page on the wiki 2008-08-25T16:26:28 ylynfatt, you're looking to build a static one? 2008-08-25T16:26:37 that's what I thought was required 2008-08-25T16:26:40 do we really need a static one? 2008-08-25T16:26:41 (i haven't been to a meeting in a while so forgive my not knowing) 2008-08-25T16:26:49 but ianweller was wondering if we should just redirect it to the wiki page 2008-08-25T16:27:09 oh yeah i did post that to the list. 2008-08-25T16:27:21 hehe actually I think you just sent it to me ian 2008-08-25T16:27:22 so we need to make a decision on that 2008-08-25T16:27:28 unless you sent it out today. 2008-08-25T16:27:33 mizmo: yeah 2008-08-25T16:27:35 maybe if it only went private mail forward it to the whole list for discussion? 2008-08-25T16:27:50 can you do that ylynfatt ? 2008-08-25T16:28:15 just a sec let me check 2008-08-25T16:29:39 hmm...I'd have to resend later when I get home. Seems my email is down at the moment. 2008-08-25T16:29:46 * quaid blows in rather late, btw, sorry 2008-08-25T16:30:08 ylynfatt, okay 2008-08-25T16:30:25 the other thing i wanted to bring up 2008-08-25T16:30:32 that im adding to the list of tasks is the my fedora project 2008-08-25T16:30:49 its something J5 has been working on for a while 2008-08-25T16:30:51 +1 2008-08-25T16:30:58 eve and i started helping him out a couple weeks ago with mockups and stuff 2008-08-25T16:31:11 i've been meaning to do a full post on it on the websites list, hoping to have that done by end of tomorrow 2008-08-25T16:31:14 here's our mockups: 2008-08-25T16:31:36 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MyFedora/Mockups 2008-08-25T16:32:01 right now our scope is that we are focusing on making current package maintainer processes more streamlined 2008-08-25T16:32:12 later on, we'll expand to make it easier for new packagers to get up to speed 2008-08-25T16:32:29 and beyond packagers/developers to more folks within the community 2008-08-25T16:32:39 also 2008-08-25T16:32:57 as part of the project i've been creating css styles that could be used in any fedora-related application 2008-08-25T16:33:00 that matches our new fpo template 2008-08-25T16:33:04 for an example you can see 2008-08-25T16:33:16 http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/My%20Fedora/html/ 2008-08-25T16:33:25 trying to define the css in layers - so it inherits in this order: 2008-08-25T16:33:33 fpo main css => fpo application chrome css => my fedora css 2008-08-25T16:33:45 looks good 2008-08-25T16:33:45 so any fedora app you want to write can go fpo main css => fpo application chrome => custom style sheet 2008-08-25T16:33:48 so 2008-08-25T16:33:52 i gotta run, i have a 4:30 meeting 2008-08-25T16:34:09 mizmo: k take care. 2008-08-25T16:34:09 if you folks want to continue go on ahead :) 2008-08-25T16:34:23 can anyone copy/paste the minutes and send to fedora-websites-list? it would be really helpful 2008-08-25T16:34:26 later! 2008-08-25T16:34:27 *** mizmo is now known as mizmo-afk 2008-08-25T16:34:50 i have nothing to add at all 2008-08-25T16:35:09 nothing else from me at the moment. 2008-08-25T16:35:17 *** CB6 has joined #fedora-websites 2008-08-25T16:35:27 would we say that _any_ web application, from CRUD code to design and CSS, is in the purview of Websites? 2008-08-25T16:35:35 just curious .... 2008-08-25T16:35:39 hey guys is there a meeting this afternoon? 2008-08-25T16:35:49 another straggler 2008-08-25T16:35:56 :O 2008-08-25T16:36:05 Infra has said , iirc, that they don't really want to be in the business of writing apps 2008-08-25T16:36:22 whaaaat 2008-08-25T16:36:25 which is a classic IT split -- infra over here, web developers right next to them, and in this case, people on all the same team 2008-08-25T16:36:30 yeah I'd think so quaid, but I'm a newbie, so I dunno what usually classifies as web vs. infrastructure. 2008-08-25T16:36:31 ianweller: I'm not saying it right 2008-08-25T16:36:33 what I'm wondering is 2008-08-25T16:36:39 there are a lot of apps being worked on, maybe 2008-08-25T16:36:46 should those be tracked in the Websites/Tasks? 2008-08-25T16:37:00 e.g. My Fedora, has it's own feature page, etc., but 2008-08-25T16:37:12 well, just wondering :) 2008-08-25T16:37:22 ianweller: did I shock ya? 2008-08-25T16:37:48 he's half asleep apparently lol 2008-08-25T16:38:04 quaid: I always thought all of the apps were being done by the websites team. 2008-08-25T16:38:09 I know Infra has been behind a bunch of app writing, that's not what I mean either 2008-08-25T16:38:43 any SIG/sub-project can potentially write their own web apps, etc. 2008-08-25T16:38:49 * ianweller is doing 80 different things at once. 2008-08-25T16:38:57 it's more that ... well, what is the "coordinating entity"? 2008-08-25T16:39:00 is that Websites? 2008-08-25T16:39:21 infra runs the websites 2008-08-25T16:39:26 docs puts content on the websites, iirc 2008-08-25T16:39:28 I'm wondering if more people want the benefits of that coordinating entity, but don't know it's here. 2008-08-25T16:39:35 websites designs the websites 2008-08-25T16:39:46 that's what i understand. 2008-08-25T16:39:49 ianweller: graphical? or code? 2008-08-25T16:40:09 I don't see any "codes the websites" in there 2008-08-25T16:40:15 shouldn't there be a joint meeting between websites and docs at least once a month? 2008-08-25T16:40:16 run, document, design 2008-08-25T16:40:33 feel free to organize one adam 2008-08-25T16:40:43 CB6: there could be, but we have such personnel bleed over that I don't know if a regular one would do the same thing as our regular interaction. 2008-08-25T16:40:47 quaid: oh yeah, coding, too. 2008-08-25T16:40:51 would have to find out 2008-08-25T16:40:53 art team does a little bit of design too i guess 2008-08-25T16:40:54 ianweller: right, and that often 2008-08-25T16:40:56 it's all a giant mesh 2008-08-25T16:41:05 ianweller: comes from all over, diff. SIGs 2008-08-25T16:41:13 quaid just wondering what kind of interaction with docs is since we compliment each other and their suggestions would be valued 2008-08-25T16:41:25 so where is the coordinating entity? does there need to be one beyond the Feature process? 2008-08-25T16:41:36 CB6: +1 for sure 2008-08-25T16:41:39 it's a conglomerate project so a few voices from other top team leaders would be cool 2008-08-25T16:42:05 * quaid qualifies to speak for/with Docs, fwiw :) 2008-08-25T16:42:08 one thing that i see about things not getting done is that i don't know if there's a set jurisdiction between the different sub-projects. 2008-08-25T16:42:44 You know how there's always someone on another team in major companies going, "I don't know why they didn't fix it." It's because THEY didn't communicate :P 2008-08-25T16:42:59 and it's especially more confusing when there are people on all the different teams 2008-08-25T16:43:09 ianweller: there are a lot of people across sub-projects, but jurisdiction 2008-08-25T16:43:17 there are some intuited jurisdictions 2008-08-25T16:43:31 and within each group, a goal/mission statement that makes stuff clear(er) 2008-08-25T16:43:36 perhaps a form from the other teams specifying their needs or concerns on a monthly basis? 2008-08-25T16:43:39 but Docs isn't in charge of producing all documentation 2008-08-25T16:43:42 that's insane :) 2008-08-25T16:43:53 lol, I'm already confused. :P 2008-08-25T16:44:08 sorry, I hoped it was a straightforward question 2008-08-25T16:44:21 ylynfatt it's really actually not as bad as it sounds... we're trying to streamline the communication channels :P 2008-08-25T16:44:25 ianweller: there is more jursidiction than we realize 2008-08-25T16:44:43 yeah it's implied. 2008-08-25T16:44:50 * tw2113 thinks there's slightly too many topics being discussed at one time 2008-08-25T16:44:51 but what i'm saying is that sometimes it gets bent 2008-08-25T16:44:56 tw2113: possibly! 2008-08-25T16:45:11 CB6: so far there aren't the sorts of problems within Fedora that you see in a big institution, but that might be a factor of our size; good to keep in mind as we grow to ensure that some process exists so that people can take a vaction. 2008-08-25T16:45:15 Essentially websites job is to get the voice of Fedora out there effectively to get points across 2008-08-25T16:45:34 tw2113: +1 2008-08-25T16:45:39 I can take mine to the list 2008-08-25T16:45:46 Scaling is never that bad 2008-08-25T16:46:01 ianweller: that is a good topic f-a-b 2008-08-25T16:46:02 I believe that's why CMS is so significant as it implies scaling 2008-08-25T16:46:07 ianweller: a sort of jurisdictional chart 2008-08-25T16:46:17 docs does the talking, websites makes the talking sound and look pretty, infrastructure makes it possible to do the talking 2008-08-25T16:46:18 CB6: yeah I understand what we are trying to do, what I was a little confused about was who is responsible for what, since we seem to have a bit of overlapping (unless I'm mistaken)? 2008-08-25T16:46:19 +1 on chart 2008-08-25T16:46:46 but I guess tw2113 is clearing that up now. 2008-08-25T16:46:57 +1 on chart as well 2008-08-25T16:47:08 ylynfatt absolutely and since it is overlapping I believe the communication barriers should be dropped 2008-08-25T16:47:22 to me, there aren't a huge amount of barriors 2008-08-25T16:47:24 ers* 2008-08-25T16:47:32 CB6: k 2008-08-25T16:47:32 a lot of the docs people are also helping with the websites stuff 2008-08-25T16:47:43 many people wear many hats here in Fedora 2008-08-25T16:47:53 * CB6 wears the clown hat 2008-08-25T16:48:04 your hat has a maple leaf on it 2008-08-25T16:48:08 we definitely need a chart though. 2008-08-25T16:48:30 but this is maddening for a websites meeting. 2008-08-25T16:48:32 When I look at the current pages for each team the jurisdiction or coverage of what is done is rather bland 2008-08-25T16:48:38 * ianweller blames himself for bringing it up 2008-08-25T16:48:43 The Chart would solidify things 2008-08-25T16:48:53 ok 2008-08-25T16:48:58 we moved all the topics aside 2008-08-25T16:48:59 I think 2008-08-25T16:49:03 and found them homes 2008-08-25T16:49:04 CB6: the chart also must display where different subprojects collaborate. 2008-08-25T16:49:11 so is there any _Websites_ topics 2008-08-25T16:49:15 as we understand that mission to be :) 2008-08-25T16:49:16 +1 on that ian 2008-08-25T16:49:18 hehe 2008-08-25T16:49:27 i think the websites meeting tasks are done for this week quaid 2008-08-25T16:49:31 ok\ 2008-08-25T16:49:31 quaid what are we missing? 2008-08-25T16:49:58 pretty quick meeting like last time, if i recall 2008-08-25T16:50:15 * ianweller motions to close 2008-08-25T16:50:21 CB6: just making sure we have the meeting finished so the random discussion can be on-topic in a random channel :) 2008-08-25T16:50:27 +1 to closing 2008-08-25T16:50:31 3rd'd 2008-08-25T16:50:38 2008-08-25T16:50:52 anyone got time to grab an IRC log and do a summary for the list? 2008-08-25T16:50:55 thanks everyone, i hope ricky was logging. if not i'll beg mmcgrath to get zodbot's logs 2008-08-25T16:51:21 ok cool 2008-08-25T16:51:25 RFE for zodbot 2008-08-25T16:51:35 a method for calling a meeting opened and closed 2008-08-25T16:51:43 definitely. 2008-08-25T16:51:44 then zodbot automatically posts it to the wiki (or something) 2008-08-25T16:51:47 i might put that in supybot-fedora 2008-08-25T16:51:49 if 2008-08-25T16:51:52 i ever get around to it 2008-08-25T16:51:56 or emails it to a list with the wiki code attached :D 2008-08-25T16:52:15 * quaid -1 himself on auto-wiki stuff with a public ircbot 2008-08-25T16:52:15 *** tw2113 is now known as tw2113-coffee 2008-08-25T16:52:25 how about it posts to the wiki, and sets an [[Category:Unsorted]] 2008-08-25T16:52:42 so the article name would be [[Meeting:fedora-websites 20080825]] and somebody would move it appropriately 2008-08-25T16:53:17 s/Unsorted/Unsorted meetings 2008-08-25T16:53:54 ehm sorry to drop in but we you all are in the websites meeting now right? 2008-08-25T16:54:05 we finished up 3 minutes ago 2008-08-25T16:54:10 great 2008-08-25T16:54:38 -_- i was busy with other things till just a few seconds ago.. 2008-08-25T16:55:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_content_management_systems 2008-08-25T16:55:21 we were talking about setting it for the middle time 2100, right? 2008-08-25T16:55:35 ianweller: that would be darn convenient :) 2008-08-25T16:56:06 would be better for me 2008-08-25T16:56:20 would be about 2300 in my timezone 2008-08-25T16:56:31 Have we come to a summary of what is going to work the best for a CMS yet? 2008-08-25T16:56:39 * ianweller goes to fetch dr. pepper 2008-08-25T16:57:00 CMS for what? 2008-08-25T16:57:33 content management system for fedora essentially as we're presently running on wiki 2008-08-25T16:58:05 markg85: sorry, 2100 UTC, I use Zulu time by default 2008-08-25T16:58:40 CB6: all the discussion has been on or driven back to the list 2008-08-25T16:58:55 CB6, wasn't that the advantage of the wiki? 2008-08-25T16:59:17 CB6: actually our content management isn't just the wiki 2008-08-25T16:59:21 nor is a wiki being replaced 2008-08-25T16:59:27 we're talking about a specific set of URLs 2008-08-25T16:59:31 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites 2008-08-25T16:59:48 * quaid is quite happy with MediaWiki, fwiw ;-D 2008-08-25T17:01:21 but what is gonna be placed in the parts that are gonna use the cms? only links to the wiki pages ^_^ ? 2008-08-25T17:01:32 markg85: what is there now?